Price of pins:

Lately, I've seen an exceeding amount of complaints of the pin price, and the accusation of it being some sort of monopoly, thus prices so absurd.

First off, there's no monopoly. That's not even the right word, this case would be an oligopoly. There are few sellers ATM because selling pins blows. It's not worth the time, so people leave. Instead of leaving, I rose the price to something that would be acceptable to me. You do not have to buy the pins, and I am confused why it makes people so mad at all. If it's not worth it to you, then don't use the service.

In the past, pins were sold for $12-$14 in gold. It's just *appearing* to be outrageous because gold has falling value and the pile of gold required is now a lot. It's called inflation.

Gold in bulk is .2... period. Yes, gold can be sold for .23, but that requires even MORE time consumption and energy. It is already the case that the average pin takes ~10 minutes to sell. 47m is already cheap in my eyes. Let's say I do. 45m, now I am making 9 bucks. Thats 1 dollar every 10 minutes, or 6 bucks an hour. If I spend even more time looking for an increased value of the gold, the time still pulls down the worth.

6 bucks an hour is not worth it, because then the gold has to be sold as well.

None of the pin sellers are doing it for any real profit. It's just a service if you want it.

If the price is to high, then walk away, or walk to the store and buy a card. Simple stuff really.

6 bucks an hour with virtually no work? Sounds good to me. I don't think you can argue with me that selling pins takes a lot of work, because I really don't think it does. Get the payment, logon to their account, put in the pin, boom. Wagerhost set a record time of like 40 seconds from payment to activation on my account.

I understand that it might not be worth it, but if you're not doing it for money, then why increase your prices so much. Keep it at 35m with gold at a stable .25. 47m is close to 10 dollars, why are you paying 10 dollars for a 1month membership...?

Connor wrote:6 bucks an hour with virtually no work? Sounds good to me. I don't think you can argue with me that selling pins takes a lot of work, because I really don't think it does. Get the payment, logon to their account, put in the pin, boom. Wagerhost set a record time of like 40 seconds from payment to activation on my account.

I understand that it might not be worth it, but if you're not doing it for money, then why increase your prices so much. Keep it at 35m with gold at a stable .25. 47m is close to 10 dollars, why are you paying 10 dollars for a 1month membership...?

That's like saying, would you accept 6 bucks an hour to sit and stare at a wall. It's not about the labor required. It's about the time. I would never take a 6 dollar an hour job, as I think I've made clear.

Yeah, some people are quick and read the rules, know the process, and the application of pins is fast. I'd be willing to bargain with those people, as it really is quick and easy. The vast majority of pins, however, take much much longer to do.

Who said we are not doing it for money? I believe the reasoning I gave is clear that I do it for money. It's a service that you pay for, and my valuation of my time is what governs the pin price.

If you want an $8 pin, then YOU go to the store and buy one. If you want a pin b/c you want one this instant, or you've maxed out your 5 sub limit on your credit card/paypal, then you can come to me.

I am missing why we are obligated to sell pins @ cost.
I know some people do it just for the vouch and rep. I can't be asked to be worried about either, and I would wager less than 10% of my pin sales are recorded in vouches or reps.

Snow wrote:

Connor wrote:6 bucks an hour with virtually no work? Sounds good to me. I don't think you can argue with me that selling pins takes a lot of work, because I really don't think it does. Get the payment, logon to their account, put in the pin, boom. Wagerhost set a record time of like 40 seconds from payment to activation on my account.

I understand that it might not be worth it, but if you're not doing it for money, then why increase your prices so much. Keep it at 35m with gold at a stable .25. 47m is close to 10 dollars, why are you paying 10 dollars for a 1month membership...?

That's like saying, would you accept 6 bucks an hour to sit and stare at a wall. It's not about the labor required. It's about the time. I would never take a 6 dollar an hour job, as I think I've made clear.

Yeah, some people are quick and read the rules, know the process, and the application of pins is fast. I'd be willing to bargain with those people, as it really is quick and easy. The vast majority of pins, however, take much much longer to do.

Who said we are not doing it for money? I believe the reasoning I gave is clear that I do it for money. It's a service that you pay for, and my valuation of my time is what governs the pin price.

If you want an $8 pin, then YOU go to the store and buy one. If you want a pin b/c you want one this instant, or you've maxed out your 5 sub limit on your credit card/paypal, then you can come to me.

I am missing why we are obligated to sell pins @ cost.
I know some people do it just for the vouch and rep. I can't be asked to be worried about either, and I would wager less than 10% of my pin sales are recorded in vouches or reps.

You're right, there is no obligation. I was just confused because just last week I bought a pin for 35m and was very surprised to see them being at 47m now.

I appreciate that you sell pins, Snow, you too, Zombeh, so thank you.

Connor wrote:
I understand that it might not be worth it, but if you're not doing it for money, then why increase your prices so much. Keep it at 35m with gold at a stable .25. 47m is close to 10 dollars, why are you paying 10 dollars for a 1month membership...?

I would just like to mention that gold is nowhere near stable and is not at .25/m I have no idea who you can sell to for .25/m at the moment without it being an obvious scam.

Is there any plan on lowering the pin prices back down again since the gold prices have gone up from the $0.2 per mill at that time to about $0.3 per mill now

I was about to ask the same question as Daxaal. Can't see paying 47m which is over $11 for 1 month of membership.

Yeah. 47m for $8.00 is way overpriced. This is about $14.00 for 1 pin. It is kind of ridiculous.

Froggie wrote:Yeah. 47m for $8.00 is way overpriced. This is about $14.00 for 1 pin. It is kind of ridiculous.

I'm going to say i both agree and disagree depending on how the upgrade is done, if it is done in anyway different to ultimate gamecard (paybycash), or with a runescape prepaid card then yes, since it only costs about $8, I would say that 40m is a fair price which is about $12 per upgrade. In the cases with the runescape card and ultimate gamecard, those upgrades cost $10 each so $14 is fair as we are not only paying for the card but we are also in a way paying for trust, as we are almost guaranteed that the guys here won't take your money and run.

The bottom line, is selling PIN's is/was a service that was provided by Snow and others. You have to pay for services in life and in game. If you don't like it, don't complain, go buy the cards yourself or subscribe. You don't go to McDonald's and tell them you don't like their prices, so please change them.

Isen wrote:The bottom line, is selling PIN's is/was a service that was provided by Snow and others.  You have to pay for services in life and in game.  If you don't like it, don't complain, go buy the cards yourself or subscribe.  You don't go to McDonald's and tell them you don't like their prices, so please change them.

The bottom line is, we are only asking for a fair price. Considering the price of 47m was made back when RSGP was .2m I think it is reasonable to keep the prices in line with the price of GP. It doesn't change their profit.

Snow wrote:

Connor wrote:6 bucks an hour with virtually no work? Sounds good to me. I don't think you can argue with me that selling pins takes a lot of work, because I really don't think it does. Get the payment, logon to their account, put in the pin, boom. Wagerhost set a record time of like 40 seconds from payment to activation on my account.

I understand that it might not be worth it, but if you're not doing it for money, then why increase your prices so much. Keep it at 35m with gold at a stable .25. 47m is close to 10 dollars, why are you paying 10 dollars for a 1month membership...?

That's like saying, would you accept 6 bucks an hour to sit and stare at a wall. It's not about the labor required. It's about the time. I would never take a 6 dollar an hour job, as I think I've made clear.

Yeah, some people are quick and read the rules, know the process, and the application of pins is fast. I'd be willing to bargain with those people, as it really is quick and easy. The vast majority of pins, however, take much much longer to do.

Who said we are not doing it for money? I believe the reasoning I gave is clear that I do it for money. It's a service that you pay for, and my valuation of my time is what governs the pin price.

If you want an $8 pin, then YOU go to the store and buy one. If you want a pin b/c you want one this instant, or you've maxed out your 5 sub limit on your credit card/paypal, then you can come to me.

I am missing why we are obligated to sell pins @ cost.    
I know some people do it just for the vouch and rep. I can't be asked to be worried about either, and I would wager less than 10% of my pin sales are recorded in vouches or reps.

I'm just going to quote this lovely post here.

See, what we are saying is that the price is outrageous. It is also monopolized because only Trusted can sell them. A 30 day pin right now, at the price of 47m is too high. $8.00 / .40 (8 dollars at 40 cents per mil), which is a very high price is ONLY 32m. Charging 47m is simply too much. That is what we are saying.

Froggie wrote:See, what we are saying is that the price is outrageous. It is also monopolized because only Trusted can sell them. A 30 day pin right now, at the price of 47m is too high. $8.00 / .40 (8 dollars at 40 cents per mil), which is a very high price is ONLY 32m. Charging 47m is simply too much. That is what we are saying.

So you're saying they should sell at cost? I would love if they sold at cost, because I make well more than that amount merching with a few days. I don't know about you, but everybody I know wants to make a profit on just about everything that they do. Nothing is done for free anymore.

And only Trusted and higher can sell? You see this as a problem? The reason we keep it trusted+ is simple, they have codes we know they obtained legally. It's possible to obtain codes illegally, then sell them at a low cost, and get the persons account either locked until they pay the balance, or locked permanently. We keep it to Trusted+ because they have to go through such a rigorous process, that they have no reason to scam.

I was told about some complaints here.

I have 2 businesses, and really don't even log in to RuneScape anymore. If people need a pin, I am here to do it, but I really don't care if I go months without a sell. I don't care about the rsgp, it literally just sits on my account.

It is and will always be a service. If you don't like the price, just walk away, just like many of the people who SOLD pins in the past did. The business sucks. No one has to sell you pins, and you don't have to buy anyone's pins. T or HT I believe can sell pins, not sure if this has changed since my leaving. If it was such an awesome gig, they'd all be doing it.

Finally,
I hardly come around here anymore, my last post was almost a month ago ... who cares what Snow said about pin prices months ago...Find something better to bitch about, honestly.

$.40 or even $.45 per mil is still a huge profit honestly. I'm just saying why can't it be under 40m because 47 is like more than $.50 per mil

Oh and dude I honestly dont care because I would just go buy my own. I'm just showing you how most people think about this topic and I am arguing for a side that doesnt have as much of a say lol. Trust me im not bitching (sorry for the language. I try not to swear at all) about anything lol- I like to debate and to me, this is a good debate

Froggie wrote:Oh and dude I honestly dont care because I would just go buy my own. I'm just showing you how most people think about this topic and I am arguing for a side that doesnt have as much of a say lol. Trust me im not bitching (sorry for the language. I try not to swear at all) about anything lol- I like to debate and to me, this is a good debate

1) Edit button, please don't double post
2) Usually, a good debater usually will find evidence and us it to support his argument, and always check that it is correct. If we assume the value of a pin alone is $10.00, then @ 47M, the price per/m is actually .21, not .4. With gold at ~.3 right now, that's really only about a 14M profit per pin. Yes, they might be able to come down, but talk to them individually. If you look at one of my re posts of Snow's, you'll see he is willing to negotiate to a certain point.
3)The public does not have a say? There are 2 sides, which are, those who buy the pins from them, and those who won't. Basic supply and demand laws are at work, but since there is such a low flow in the amount of pins they sell, or interest in them, they just keep the prices the same, so they make about as much profit as they used to. Talk to them individually, and they could help you out with it if they were feeling nice.
4) I am not attacking you, I am just breaking down your argument and picking at it to show slight flaws and where you could improve. I have nothing to gain from prices staying high, since I don't sell pins.